505. S: You mean, like a doctor on the surgery table?
506. G: Yes, that is a right example.
507. S: So if hate is not there, is killing right when done as a
duty?
508. G: It is on that basis, the military justifies itself.
509. S: You are now entering the political arena.
510. G. No, you are missing the most important point about the
state
of the mind.
511. S: What is it?
512. G: There should be no hate, no attachment. Then the sin or
otherwise of the action does not devolve on you.
513. S: Is this what is known as Karma yoga?
514. G: Karma Yoga builds up on this idea and gives you a
methodology to act up to this.
515. S: What is that methodology?
516. G: It is known as ‘yajna’.
517. S: I have no clear idea what it is. But I have heard the
word.
518. G: How does a dedicated nurse in a hospital work?
519. S: You said ‘dedicated’. So she must be doing her work
excellently well.
520. G: Does she have any self-interest?
521. S: Maybe she is interested in her monthly pay.
522. G: Suppose she works for the love of it and does not receive
any salary.
523. S: She must be really a very dedicated soul.
524. G: Now what would you say about her work?
525. S: She must be great!
526. G: Leave aside the appreciation. Here is somebody working for
the sake of work and is not having any self-interest.
527. S: Is this called the yajna-type of work?
528. G: Yes. Gita says every action should be done with a yajna
spirit.
529. S: Easier said than done.
530. G: As usual Krishna tells
you how. Dedicate all your actions to
God.
531. S: I can certainly dedicate all my actions to God, but still
be
doing wrong things.
532. G: Dedication means you do only that type of work which your
God of dedication would like you to do.
533. S: And avoid that kind of work which that God would not want
me to do – I can see the game.
534. G: Perfectly right. Dedication means voluntary acceptance of
discipline for the sake of your object of dedication.
535. S: The concept of yajna is really great!
536. G: Not just great. It is the greatest contribution of
Hinduism to
the ways of living for the whole world.
537. S: But what is the point of all this, except to say it is
good?
538. G: The bottom line is this. By doing every work as a yajna,
you
avoid the vAsanA of the work sticking to you.
539. S: Where did ‘vAsanA’ come here in this picture?
540. G: We were saying that when you work with detachment, sin or
otherwise of the action would not devolve on you.
541. S: Does the yajna attitude give you detachment?
542. G: Exactly. When you dedicate your action to your God, it
means you have no self-interest.
543. S: But aren’t you interested in the result of your action?
544. G: You are like an actor on the stage. Result on the stage,
of the
action on the stage, is the Director’s responsibility.
545. S: Oh! Here the Director is God! But Besides the example of a
hospital nurse, can I have other examples of this?
546. G: During the pre-independence times of India, many of our
freedom fighters had that dedication.
547. S: Some of them were not believers in God. Who or What was
their God of dedication?
548. G: Mother India or BhArat-mAtA was their Goddess of
dedication.
549. S: They even laid their lives for Her sake.
550. G: When every action is done in this yajna fashion,
work
becomes worship.
551. S: What is so great about worship? Why worship? Why God?
552. G: Are you taking me into a discussion of God?
553. S: I was only waiting for this opportunity.
554. G: Articulate your doubts.
555. S: Earlier we concluded that Brahman is the Ultimate
and it is
nameless and formless.
556. G: Certainly. So what?
557. S: Then why do we worship several Gods and Goddesses with
different names and forms?
558. G: Brahman is infinite in existence, infinite in
knowledge and
infinite in Bliss.
559. S: If Brahman were infinite in Bliss and is also
all-pervading,
then Bliss should be all-pervading.
560. G: Of course it is.
561. S: Don’t tell me that, Guruji. We have only to look at the
tragedies in the world.
562. G: Tragedies are natural in world-life. They cannot but be
there.
You have to transcend them to see the Bliss.
563. S: It looks like escapism from reality.
564. G: I am not asking you to run away from it.
565. S: What else does ‘transcending’ mean?
566. G: As a citizen of the world your duty is to go and do your
best,
first to prevent and then remedy, the tragedies.
567. S: Then why are you asking me to look beyond them?
568. G: Looking beyond is not looking away. You should not turn
your head the other way.
569. S: You are puzzling. Please make it simple.
570. G: Be in the world. Be an honest citizen. Do your duty. But
have an attitude of transcendence.
571. S: How does that help?
572. G: It helps in your ascent to spirituality.
573. S: You have not yet told me why I have to be spiritual.
574. G: I thought you showed interest in spirituality.
575. S: I was only exhibiting an academic curiosity.
576. G: An academic curiosity would only lead to scholarship; it
would not lead you to Mokshha.
577. S: I apologise, Guruji. I stand corrected.
578. G: In fact, in order to absorb advaita, there are four
prerequisite
qualifications prescribed by Shankara.
579. S: I would like to know them, certainly.
580. G: First, a capacity to discriminate between what is
permanent
and what is ephemeral.
581. S: Even the beginning seems tough!
582. G: Secondly, a dispassion towards desire for acquisitions,
here
or in the world hereafter.
583. S: I see why you played down my academic curiosity!
584. G: The third one is an intense anguish for obtaining release
from the cycle of births and deaths.
585. S: It is easy to agree with this, but it is the intensity of
feeling
that is in question .
586. G: And a conglomerate of six qualities: Equanimity,
Selfcontrol,
Self-withdrawal, Endurance, Tranquillity and Faith.
587. S: Blessed are those indeed, who have all these!
588. G: Let us now come back to the topic of transcendence of
transience.
589. S: You mean whatever is transient must be transcended?
590. G: Good. The scriptures have a beautiful way of saying this.
591. S: I would like to hear that.
592. G: All that is transient is called mAyA, in Vedanta.
593. S: I thought mAyA meant Illusion.
594. G: What is illusion?
595. S: Illusion is something which appears but is actually
nonexistent.
596. G: Then mAyA is not Illusion.
597. S: Then all those expositors of Vedanta, who translate mAyA
as
Illusion, are wrong?
598. G: It is not a question of translation; it is a question of
what
impression is conveyed.
599. S: So if mAyA conveys the meaning of illusion, meaning
appearance of falsity, then that is not right?
600. G: mAyA simply means whatever is transient, that is,
comes and
goes.
601. S: What about a dream?
602. G: Yes, dream is mAyA. Our scriptures say that the
whole
universe of creation is a mAyA.
603. S: Does it mean then that we are all living in mAyA?
604. G: Don’t ask that as if you are surprised. Your surprise is
because you are still thinking that mAyA is falsity.
605. S: If mAyA is not falsity, then is it real?
606. G: I told you whatever is transient is mAyA. Our life
comes and
goes. Happiness and suffering come and go.
607. S: Then in that case the world is also a mAyA; because
it comes
and goes.
608. G: Therefore the transience of the mAyA has to be
transcended.
609. S: How is that possible?
610. G: How did mAyA originate?
611. S: I know my dream originates from me.
612. G: But the origin of the Cosmic mAyA by which the
world came
into existence, is not known.
613. S: Don’t the Vedas say something about it?
614. G: They say it is the work of Ishvara, God.
615. S: Where did this Ishvara come from now?
616. G: Ishvara is man’s conception of Brahman.
617. S: I don’t get you.
618. G: Now comes the punchline of advaita!
619. S: I am all alert!
620. G: Brahman is attributeless. In particular, nameless
and
formless. It is never the object of perception or thought. But man’s
mind finds it difficult to grasp that impersonality. Anytime he
thinks
of Brahman, he has already made it an object of thought.
Either he
gives it an anthropomorphic form or he gives it a name. Either way
what he is doing is he is thinking of a Brahman with
attributes. It is
called saguNa Brahman, commonly known as Ishvara –
equivalent to
the Almighty God of all religions. The attributeless Brahman is
known as nirguNa-Brahman.
621. S: But in reality, what is the contention of advaita? Is Brahman
nirguNa or saguNa?
622. G. Brahman is nirguNa.
623. S: Then why do we at all need a saguNa Brahman?
624. G: We cannot but. You saw that just now.
625. S: Still this impersonal Brahman along with a personal
substitute bothers me.
626. G: What would you have?
627. S: Only the impersonality.
628. G: Then you cannot even talk about it. The definition of
Brahman would not allow any duality.
629. S: Are you saying that Ishvara concept comes only in
the case
of duality?
630. G: How else would Ishvara arise?
631. S: Then advaita, which means non-duality, should not have any
concept of Ishvara.
632. G: Other than Ishvara there is no guide for us to
reach
Brahman or to grasp the basic non-duality.
633. S: But a worship of Ishvara would mean we are coming
down
to duality.
634. G: “na anyaH panthA ayanAya vidyate”. There is no
other road
to Moksha.
635. S: Is that the reason why we are worshipping several Gods and
Goddesses?
636. G: That is the philosophical reason.
637. S: But the idea of several Gods completely throws overboard
the concept of non-duality!
638. G: You must know they are only different names and forms of
the same Ultimate.
639. S: But the Puranas speak of multifarious stories of the
different
Gods.
640. G: You must have also noted that in each such case the God of
that Purana is raised to the status of Brahman.
641. S: Does it mean then they are all various manifestations of
Brahman?
642. G: Choose your style of interpretation. It does not matter so
long as you are not deluded by the names and forms.
643. S: Yes. If Ishvara arises in the way you have
described, then He
is also coming and going. Is that also mAyA?
644. G: Yes, but with a difference. In the case of God He controls
His mAyA. Whereas we are in mAyA’s control.
645. S: Can mAyA be considered as God’s Potential?
646. G: In a sense, yes. In fact, two facets of Energy (shakti)
are
associated by us with Brahman.
647. S: Is this what is called PrakRti?
648. G: Yes. There is a parA-prakRti and there is an
aparA-prakRti.
‘parA’ is supreme and ‘aparA’ is not-so-supreme.
649. S: I have heard them talked about as parA-shakti and
aparAshakti.
650. G: You are right. It is aparA-prakRti that
corresponds to mAyA.
651. S: Is it the source, origin of all matter and the universe?
652. G: In Vedanta cosmology, it is the qualitative guNa or
svabhAva from which all matter arises.
653. S: Whereas, in Physics, it is the quantitative matter, their
weight, substance and constituents, that are fundamental.
654. G: These guNas are inherent in aparA-prakRti
(Cosmic
Energy). It is what gives matter its substance.
655. S: In other words, Energy is self-existent and Matter is the
product of this omni-present Energy.
656. G: Whereas, in Physics, it is the other way.
657. S: I see now, in Vedanta, PrakRti is the source of all
matter in
the universe.
658. G: For that reason, PrakRti is also called PradhAnaM,
the
Fundamental.
659. S: But it is very subtle, isn’t it?
660. G: Yes, it is the unmanifest thing that manifests into
everything.
Therefore it is also called avyaktaM (unmanifest).
661. S: But it is not manifest all the time.
662. G: It alternates between manifestation and unmanifestation.
So
gets the name of kshhara, the Perishable.
663. S: Is this then the Perishable purushha (kshhara-purushha)
in
us, that you referred to earlier.
664. G: No. Wait. The spiritual undercurrent vibrating in all
beings,
called jIva, is under a matter envelopment.
665. S: I see. The matter envelopment, that is perishable, comes
from PrakRti.
666. G: JIva itself, our spirit component, is a fragment of
the Citshakti
(Pure Consciousness) of Brahman.
667. S: I thought you said there are two shaktis, parA-shakti
and
aparA-shakti.
668. G: Yes. The parAshakti has three facets: Desire (IcchA),
Action
(KriyA) and Consciousness (jnAna or cit).
669. S: Is parA-shakti the source of our jIva?
670. G: JIva, the kshhara-purushha in us, is just an
atomic fragment
of that Power of Consciousness (cit-shakti).
671. S: So that is why our essential content is Consciousness. Is
this
our akshhara-purushha, the Witness in us?
672. G: Exactly. It is also called kUTastha, the One which
remains
unchanged like the anvil in a smithy.
673. S: If I remember right, the Gita talks of a third purushha,
namely, purushhottama.
674. G: The Purushhottama is the supreme who appears as the
other
two purushhas.
675. S: Can I have a picture that incorporates all the three
purushhas and their roles?
676. G: The roles are actually three poises of the same
purushhottama. The kshhara-purushha – who is
the result of
identification of the jIva with the BMI – reflects the varied workings
of PrakRti and thinks of himself as the ego-doer of works.
He is the
one that remembers ‘I slept well last night’. So He is saguNa,
personal. On the other hand when the Purushha takes the
poise of
akshhara, he is nirguNa, impersonal. He
is dissociated from the
doings of the guNas. He is aware that prakRti is the
doer and himself
is only the witnessing self. The purushottama creates,
sustains and
dissolves, through His prakRti and manifests in the jIva.
In the
akshhara, He is untouched and indifferent. In
the kshhara He is the
immanent Will and the present active Lord.
677. S: It is all pretty complicated. Why don’t you give some
analogies?
678. G: Certainly. Let the entire space represent the Purushottama.
Then the space within a jar is the akshhara-Purushha.
679. S: That fits in with the Purushottama appearing as the
akshhara-Purushha, just because of the
limitation of the jar.
680. G: Now fill up the jar with water.Outer space is reflected in
that
water. This reflected space is the kshara-Purushha.
681. S: What goes on in the reflected space due to vibrations in
the
water, does not affect the jar-space, the akshhara.
682. G: Not only that. The reflected space, the kshara,
hides the very
presence of the jar-space, the akshhara.
683. S: Wonderful. When you throw the water away, the jar-space
comes to light.
684. G: Exactly. That water is our mind. The Supreme, reflected in
our mind, is what makes us the jIva, the kshara.
685. S. When there is no separate thing as mind – water in the jar
–
the akshhara shows up by itself.
686. G: There you have the entire picture.
687. S: PraNAms, Guruji, That makes matters
clear! Now I think
we can resume our discussion of Cit-shakti.
688. G: Ishvara Himself is another fragment of that Cit-shakti.
He is
Brahman conditioned by our intellect (cit).
689. S: Is Ishvara then the base for all the beings in the
universe?
690. G: Yes. All beings are in Him, says Krishna
in the 7th chapter of
the Gita.
691. S: But I have heard that He immediately appears to contradict
Himself.
692. G: True. You seem to be very familiar with all controversial
things.!
693. S: Krishna says in the very
next shloka: “Beings are not in
Me”. Guruji, You have to clarify this for me!
694. G: Are you familiar with the snake-rope analogy?
695. S: Certainly. A rope appears as a snake or a streak of water
in
dim light.
696. G: I bring the light and I now question you: ‘Where was the
snake?’. What would you reply?
697. S: On the rope.
698. G: Now I ask: ‘Was the snake there?’
699. S: No, Guruji, it was never there!
700. G: Now the same thing happens with the Lord’s statements.
701. S: I don’t think I fully understand it.
702. G: If you ask the Lord: ‘Where are all the beings?’, what
would
He reply?
703. S: ‘They are in Me’.
704. G: But if you then ask Him: ‘Were they ever there?’....
705. S: He will have to say ‘They were never there. Only I was
there
and am there.’
706. G: This is exactly what is happening in that Gita shloka.
This is
the beauty of the great mAyA of Ishvara.
707. S: Is that why we have to transcend mAyA or PrakRti
to reach
Brahman?
708. G: Exactly.
709. S: How do we transcend mAyA? Through the use of our
intellect?
710. G: Intellect is not enough. Intellect is for doing Atma-vicAra,
that is, intellectual enquiry about the Atman.
711. S: What will this enquiry do?
712. G: It will churn the mind thoroughly and bring all the dirt
to the
surface.
713. S: Is our mind then like a trash can that we can empty at
will?
714. G: I wish it were. You cannot throw away the mental dirt by
that means. You can only purify them.
715. S: How do we do that?
716. G: By pouring continuously into that reservoir of the mind,
thoughts of God and of noble things.
717. S: Guruji, may I request you to go back to explain mAyA
further? It is really very tricky.
718. G: You are not the only one who feels so. The entire world
feels it so.
719. S: Let me particularise a few questions on mAyA.
720. G: That would help me too.
721. S: Is mAyA real or unreal?
722. G: You have asked the most difficult question first. mAyA is
neither real nor unreal.
723. S: How can that be?
724. G: It is real because we see the effects of PrakRti existing
before us.
725. S: It is also not real because, ...
726. G: Being of the nature of transience, it vanishes in due
time.
727. S: If something vanishes after a certain time, is it not
taken to
be real?
728. G: The word ‘real’ has to be carefully handled. On one side
there is the absolute reality of Brahman.
729. S: Because it is ever there and its presence can never be
negated
or denied.
730. G: Yes. On the other extreme there is an absolute unreality
like,
say, a hare’s horn, or, the son of a barren woman.
731. S: Actually they don’t exist at all.
732. G: That is why it is called absolute unreality. The Sanskrit
term
is “asat”. It is absolute non-existence.
733. S: Then ‘sat’ means reality?
734. G: In advaita ‘sat’ means absolute reality, the
Sanskrit being
“pAramArthika satyaM”.
735. S: What about the reality of the world?
736. G: It comes between ‘sat’ and ‘asat’. It is
neither ‘sat’ nor
‘asat’. ‘vyAvahArika satyaM’ operational reality.
737. S: What about dream reality?
738. G: Dream is real only to the dreamer and during the dream
only. It is subjective reality, “prAtibhAsika satyaM”.
739. S: So there are four kinds of reality?
740. G: All that come in between ‘sat’ and ‘asat’
are bunched under
the term ‘mithyA’.
741. S: So ‘mithyA’ includes both operational reality of
the world
and the subjective reality of the dream. Is that right?
742. G: Yes, mAyA belongs to the order of reality called ‘mithyA’.
It
is neither ‘sat’ nor ‘asat’.
743. S: The way you have described it implies that the world
belongs
to the ‘mithyA’ type of reality.
744. G: Yes. That is why Shankara’s famous quote says: “brahma
satyaM, jagat mithyA”.
745. S: I have heard it translated as ‘Brahman is the
reality, the
universe is unreal’.
746. G: That translation would be wrong if you mean by ‘unreality’
the absolute unreality called ‘asat’.
747. S: Can you elaborate this further?
748. G: In all cases of ‘mithyA’, the ‘is-ness’ is not
questionable. But
the understanding of ‘what it is’ is wrong.
749. S: But I think there are still some loose ends.
750. G: Like?
751. S: Is creation by Ishvara real or not?
752. G: Creation also belongs to the ‘mithyA’ category,
neither
absolutely real nor absolutely unreal.
753. S: But within the mithyA category, there seem to be
several
shades of difference in reality.
754. G. In fact, everything that is made up from something else,
has
a lesser permanence than what it is made of.
755. S: Yes, clay is more permanent than a clay-pot.
756. G: If you keep pursuing this idea of permanence relentlessly,
you will find all except the Absolute is impermanent.
757. S: But I was referring to the shades of difference in
reality, for
instance, the reflection in a mirror.
758. G: It belongs to the category of subjective reality, within
all
impermanence, that is, mithyA.
759. S: Is there any other?
760. G: You may recall the standard example of a rope appearing as
a snake, in a dimly lighted environment.
761. S: That is also subjective reality.
762. G: Yes. The appearance of a snake is only real to the
observer
of that appearance during the appearance.
763. S: And it vanishes when the environment is lighted.
764. G: It is said that the existence of the universe itself is
like this
appearance of snake on the rope.
765. S: What corresponds to the rope here?
766. G: Brahman, of course.
767. S: In other words, there is only Brahman, everywhere?
768. G: Certainly. We see the universe, instead of Brahman,
erroneously.
769. S: What is the cause of this error?
770. G: Our own Ignorance.
771. S: But Man has been seeing this universe ever since he first
appeared on this earth.
772. G: That is why the Ignorance is called ‘beginningless’ –
“anAdi” in Sanskrit.
773. S: We know when it started – I told you, when man first came
on this earth.
774. G: In Hindu Vedanta, there is no first, for these things.
Because
Time is cyclic. Creation and Dissolution recur.
775. S: That explains the “anAdi” nature of Ignorance. But
Ignorance of what?
776. G: Ignorance of two things: “I am the Atman” and “Atman
is
Brahman”.
777. S: I would like to think about these two statements more
carefully.
778. G: To help you think and contemplate, the Vedas have given
them in four ‘mahAvAkyas’.
779. S: I would love to understand them.
780. G: Each of the mahAvAkyas, incorporate both of the
above two
statements of which man, by nature, is ignorant.
781. S: One interruption. Before we try to remove the ignorance,
should we not find the cause of the Ignorance?
782. G: That is where even your scientific spirit would not help
you
in Vedanta.
783. S: I don’t get you.
784. G: The cause of the Ignorance is one of the few things
declared
to be unexplainable.
785. S: How can Vedanta ignore this aspect of Ignorance?
786. G: They say Ignorance is the effect of mAyA.
787. S: And they get away with it?
788. G: There are two powers of mAyA that do havoc. One
veils the
Truth. Another projects what is other than Truth.
789. S: The veiling of Truth by mAyA is understandable. But
it is
the projection that is more puzzling.
790. G: Let us go to the different analogies for this relationless
relationship of the projected Universe and Brahman.
791. S: I know already four: Snake on a rope; Dream; Reflection in
a
mirror; Movie on a screen.
792. G:There are some more: Water in a mirage; Silver in the
mother-of-pearl; Beads strung together on a string.
793. S: The last one seems to be the easiest.
794. G: But it helps the understanding of a delicate principle
called
“anvaya and vyatireka”.
795. S: I have not heard of this.
796. G: “anvaya” is inclusion: The beads together cannot
hold unless
you conceive the substratum of the string.
797. S: And what is “vyatireka”?
798. G: The string can hold by itself without the beads. This is
the
‘exclusion’ of the beads.
799. S: I don’t see clearly the connection of this with Brahman
and
the universe.
800. G: The Self is the string in which every non-Self is strung
like
beads. The fact that the Self is the continuity or connection part
of the
string in all that is non-self is “anvaya”. The non-self is
dependent on
the Self for their appearance as non-self, just as the beads are
dependent on the string for their appearance in a line. The fact
that
the Self itself is still separate from the non-self is “vyatireka”.
The
Self is independent of the non-self, just as the string is
independent of
the beads. Again, the existence of the Self in deep sleep while
the
BMI is dormant is anvaya (accordance). That the Self is
conscious
independently of the BMI, as in deep sleep, is vyatireka (divergence).
801. S: My praNAms to those seers who saw all this.!
802. G: Let us get on with our analogies. Water in mirage and
Silver
in mother of pearl are both of one kind.
803. S: In both cases the appearance is well-known and repetitive.
In
both cases there is no medium involved.
804. G: But in the case of the reflection in a mirror the mirror
happens to be the medium.
805. S: Am I allowed to do some more analysis of these analogies?
806. G: Go ahead.
807. S: Rope appears as a snake. Better lighting shows it as only
rope.
808. G: So also Brahman appears as the universe. A Guru
gives the
better light by pointing out the Truth.
809. S: OK. After you have told me the Truth and I have understood
it, still I see only the universe, not Brahman. Why?
810. G: To see this you have to go to the analogy of the water in
the
mirage or the silver in mother-of-pearl.
811. S: I see. In both cases even after knowing the Truth, the
same
wrong appearance stares me in the face.
812. G: But even here there is an objection. You can’t use either
the
water in the mirage or the silver in the mother-of-pearl.
813. S: You mean the water will not quench my thirst and the
silver
will not get me any money?
814. G: Yes. But the water in the universe quenches my thirst. And
the silver in the universe gets me money.
815. S: Well, that means the analogies are not perfect.
816. G: In fact there is no perfect analogy. Still let us continue
our
study. Now go to the dream analogy.
817. S: What about it?
818. G: In the dream, there is (dream) water which will quench
your
(dream) thirst.
819. S: I think I am missing something.
820. G: If the universe, which is only an appearance, satisfies
many
of your needs, the dream also is of the same kind. Whatever thirst
you
have within the dream, there is water in the dream that quenches
your
thirst. The silver in the dream gets you money in the dream. So
the
dream analogy is a fairly close analogy to the reality or
unreality of
the world-appearance.
821. S: Is it why there is so much talk about the operational
world
being just a dream from an absolute point of view?
822. G: You said it right. From the absolute point of view.
823. S: Are there other features of the dream analogy?
824. G: There is something unique. That the dream is not real
dawns
on us when we wake up from the dream. The dreamer, when he
dreams, takes it to be totally real. There is no guru coming in
the
dream and telling you that it is all only a dream and that you
should
better wake up from the dream into the outside world. On the other
hand, in the operational world of reality, though we take the
universe
to be real and existing. we have our guru telling us that this is
a dream
from the absolute point of view and we have to wake up from this
‘dream’ of a world! He himself lives beyond the
‘dream-of-the-world’
stage, yet he comes ‘down’ from his absolute level into our
‘dream’
and talks to us in this ‘dream’ of ours about the Truth that is
beyond
this ‘dream’! Without the dream analogy in our culture, it would
be
almost impossible to comprehend the Guru’s teaching that the Truth
is
beyond this visible operational world of reality!
825. S: Fantastic! There is so much about the dream analogy!
826. G: Now we are ready to go to the mahAvAkyas.
827. S: Are we taking them up one by one?
828. G: No. I am going to discuss only one of them. “tat tvam
asi”.
829. S: I have heard this comes in Chandogya Upanishad and
belongs to Sama Veda.
830. G: Right. ‘That Thou art’ is the meaning.
831. S: Do I take it that we are going to establish this by
reasoning?
832. G: No. This declaration is not an objective fact or
experience
that can be inferred from other knowledge or reasoning.
833. S: Is it then an intuitive experience?
834. G: That is what our elders say.
835. S: Who is the ‘Thou’ in the mahAvAkya? I see the word
‘That’
represents Brahman.
836. G: ‘Thou’ is the inherent substratum in every one of us
without
which we just don’t exist.
837. S: Then it is our inner Self, the Atman.
838. G: But here it appears to have been given an individuality of
its
own, since ‘Thou’ is being addressed.
839. S: This individual ‘thou’ being identified with the
unqualified
infinite Brahman is rather perplexing.
840. G: It is not the identification of a finite something with
the
infinite Brahman. Whenever a person A seen now is
identified with a
person B seen long ago, we are not saying that the external
features,
like names, dresses, mannerisms, and various temporary
identification
characteristics of A and B are the same. We are only saying that
the
essential persons behind the two are the same. So also, discarding
the
temporary characteristics of both ‘thou’ and ‘that’, we try to
look only
at the essentialness in both. The ignorance (avidyA)
associated with
‘Thou’ is the temporary characteristic of ‘Thou’. The feature of
being
the cause (mAyA) of the universe is the temporary
characteristic of
‘That’. The essential commonality arises by looking at ‘Thou’
minus
its ‘avidyA’ and at ‘That’ (=Brahman) minus its ‘mAyA’.
841. S: In other words Thou minus avidyA is the same as
That minus
mAyA.!
842. G:The temporary characteristics that we discard in favour of
the essentials are called ‘taTastha-lakshhaNas’.
843. S: And the essential ones?
844. G: They are called ‘svarUpa-lakshhaNas’. Those of the
Supreme are: Existence, Knowledge and Bliss.
845. S: What does the understanding of these and the mahAvAkyas
do? Is understanding enough?
846. G: Neither is it enough nor is it easy. You have to have
Guru’s
Grace for it. And then you have to live it.
847. S: In what way?
848. G: By seeing God everywhere. You must be able to see the
wood and not the elephant in the wooden elephant.
849. S: But the elephant is there!
850. G: Certainly. When you play with a child, yes. But when you
are with yourself, the elephant is a burden.
851. S: But I am told that so long as there is the ego in me I
cannot
have this divine perception; is that right?
852. G: Yes, we are all born with certain vAsanAs carried
from our
past lives.
853. S: These vAsanAs are in our mind only.
854. G: But mind is nothing but thought-flow into several channels
according to the strength of our vAsanAs.
855. S: Some of the channels must be good and some of them must
be bad.
856. G: Our ancients have classified two of them to be good and
thirteen to be bad.
857. S: What are the two good ones?
858. G: ShraddhA and Bhakti. ShraddhA is
Faith in the divine
content of Man.
859. S: And of course Bhakti is Dedication and Devotion to
that
divine content.
860. G: But because of our bad vAsanAs the thoughts usually
tend to
flow into one or more of the thirteen channels.
861. S: What are the thirteen? I guess one of them is the ego.
862. G: Actually it is the most important. It is the captain of
the gang
of thirteen.
863. S: And the other twelve of the gang are ...
864. G: Can’t you guess?
865. S: I have heard about KAma, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Mada and
MAtsarya.
866. G: Yes. Lust or Desire, Anger, Greed, Delusion, Arrogance and
Jealousy. These are well-known.
867. S: What are the other six?
868. G: rAga, dveshha, IrshhyA, asUyA, dambha and garva.
869. S: rAga is Attachment and dveshha is Hate. What
do the others
denote?
870. G: IrshhyA is the uncomfortable awkward feeling that
‘all these
miseries are happening only to me!’
871. S: The word ‘asUyA’ – is it not the same thing as mAtsarya?
872. G: No. asUyA is what downplays the legitimate
positives of the
other person, and enjoys that downplaying.
873. S: But then what is jealousy, mAtsarya?
874. G: It simply cannot brook the rise of the other person.
875. S: Then there is garva, which is pride. But I am not
so clear
about dambha.
876. G: It is show of importance and projection of oneself by
assuming an explicit credit role even when it is not due.
877. S: What is the role of Ego in all this?
878. G: It is always in the background but is the motivator and
agent
of every thought-flow of the mind.
879. S: Well, that does’nt seem to be terrifically wrong.
880. G: It is wrong because it is what makes you think you are the
doer of everything.
881. S: But I have been advised by you to have the attitude of ‘I
am
not the doer’ and ‘I am not the experiencer’.
882. G: It is Ego that prevents you from cultivating that
attitude.
883. S: In what way?
884. G: Ego claims every thought. It is itself actually a
superimposition by our Ignorance (avidyA) on the Self
within.
885. S: Is this what they call ‘adhyAsa’?
886. G: There are actually two kinds of this superimposition.
887. S: Two kinds?
888. G: An attachment to the BMI and an attachment to everything
one calls mine.
889. S: The first is the thinking of the Ego: ‘I am the BMI’; and the
second makes it say: ‘This is mine’.
890. G: The first is ‘tAdAtmya-adhyAsa’ and the second is
‘samsarga adhyAsa’.
891. S: Both kinds of adhyAsa have to be eradicated, I
would
suppose.
892. G: Yes, for this eradication, an internal war has to be waged
through spiritual disciplines.
893. S: Are you referring to disciplines like ‘yoga’?
894. G: I am referring to what is called ‘yoga-sAdhanA’
which
means ‘control of the senses by spiritual regimen’.
895. S: Does Meditation come under this? You remember we
postponed this discussion earlier.
896. G: Yes, dhyAna (Meditation) is the internal face of
this yogasAdhanA.
897. S: What is the external face?
898. G: It is tapas, consisting of austerity of speech, of
body and of
mind.
899. S: I remember to have seen them defined by Krishna
in chapter
17 of the Gita. Shall we talk about Meditation?.
900. G: Meditation is the art of stilling the mind so that it is
motionless like a lamp placed in a windless spot.
901. S: Every time I try it I fail miserably.
902. G: Meditation to be successful has to have a parallel
life-long
ethical preparation called yama and niyama.
903. S: Are these not moral codes of conduct and of spiritual
observances?
904. G: Yes, like non–violence, truth, non-stealing, purity,
contentment, absence of desire to possess, etc.
905. S: I am told, when the mind stays still, in that silence and
peace,
the Light of the Self shows up.
906. G: That is only a way of saying. What happens is: The mind
rests in the Atman.
907. S: So there is nothing to see?
908. G: It is the unusual feat of the Atman ‘watching’
itself, as it
were. It is the natural state of equilibrium and bliss.
909. S: When described like this it seems not difficult.
910. G: Don’t think so. Because the vibrations of the mind have to
be controlled, monitored and anchored to one spot.
911. S: It certainly is a slow process.
912. G: Yes, Krishna says:
‘Little by little let him attain to stillness
by the intellect held firmly by the will power’.(Gita:6-25).
913. S: But what about the flow of thoughts that must be going on?
914. G: Just watch the thoughts. Do not probe into the question
how
or why that thought came. Do not analyse the positives and
negatives
of the subject matter of the thought lest that process generate
new
thoughts. Don’t get into this chain reaction of thoughts. Don’t
also try
to make a mental note of all the thoughts that pass through your
mind
now. Just watch the thoughts come and go. Just be a watcher. Don’t
get attached to any of the thoughts. Don’t take possession of the
thoughts. That is where you fall as the prey of the ego. Don’t
ever get
into the content of any of the thoughts. Just keep watching. Think
not
that you are watching. Just be. One by one thoughts will come and
also disappear like waves which rise and then fall. One thought
after
another, it will keep coming ... and going. The next thought may
delay
a bit to appear. Don’t expect it when it delays. Don’t be ready to
recognise it when it comes. Automatically the thoughts will become
more and more feeble. Don’t think about anything. Stop thinking.
915. S: Thank you, Guruji, you have given me a blow by blow
recipe of what I should practise.
916. G: But not to think about anything is, however, not a
mechanical process.
917. S: Then what do we do?
918. G: Go over in the mind the meaning of a mahAvAkya or a
spiritual statement by seers like Ramana.
919. S: You mean, repetition of a mantra?
920. G: No. In fact when you sit for meditation you might perhaps
have started with a japa of a mantra.
921. S: That is very straightforward.
922. G: Then continue that japa until it becomes a silent japa,
with
the involvement of the total personality, heart and soul.
923. S: Should we stop the counting, now?
924. G: Nothing should be done as a stepwise effort. Each stage
should slip into the next stage smoothly.
925. S: Even the stopping of counting?
926. G: Yes. Gradually the japa itself becomes a nididhyAsanA
–
contemplation on the spiritual truths.
927. S: Does nididhyAsana have to be only on the mahAvAkyas?
Can we not take some simple truths for contemplation?.
928. G: ‘But for fire things cannot burn; But for the
Consciousness
within, can inert mind be sentient?’. Even this will do.
929. S: Is this how we are expected to be convinced of the
Upanishadic truths of non-duality?
930. G: For the understanding of the Upanishadic truths, there is
nothing like nididhyAsana.
931. S: I never realised that meditation could involve such
contemplation.
932. G: Slowly the nididhyasana will come to be done
without any
effort or thought, with the mind resting in the Atman.
933. S: But I have heard it said that the culmination of
meditation is
samAdhi.
934. G: Don’t worry about it. When your mind is still, you are
already enjoying the bliss of the Atman.
935. S: Where does this bliss come from?
936. G: It comes from the Infinite reservoir of Bliss which is the
Atman.
937. S: This is the Bliss that great seers like Ramana talk about?
938. G: For such sages like Ramana or a Sadashiva-Brahmendra,
they are naturally in that state ever.
939. S: Great souls!
940. G: They are called jIvan-muktas -- (Liberated even
while
living).
941. S: So advaita envisages liberation even before the demise of
the
body?
942. G: It does. That is one of the distinguishing marks of
advaita.
943. S: But then by what reason do such people also suffer?
944. G: That is because of the remnant of prArabdha that is
yet to be
experienced.
945. S: But I thought jIvan-muktas have no experience that
the BMI
usually has.
946. G: You are right. Whatever experience they seem to go through
is only by their BMI.
947. S: Oh Yes, they must be already in identification with their
Inner Self.
948. G: So in that sense they may be said to have no experience of
prArabdha.
949. S: What about their experience of this universe?
950. G: For them what they see is all Brahman. They see the
screen,
not the movie!
951. S: But Sages like Ramana have talked to individuals in their
individual capacity.
952. G: This only means that if they want, they can hold back
their
Brahma-bhAva and descend down to our plane.
953. S: What is this Brahma-bhAva (being in Brahman)?
954. G: I can tell you only what such sages have said about it.
“It is
a divine perception of equanimity – an equanimous view of every
being in the world as the same self as the one that dwells in
them. It is
a blissful experience, called Brahma-Ananda. Therein there
is no
more knowledge, no more ignorance, no perceiver, nothing
perceived,
no perception. It is something devoid of the triple – knower,
knowledge and the known. Such enlightened persons do not see this
world, they do not see anything. All they see is the godliness of
Infinite Love and the loveliness of Omnipresent God. In their
world,
there is no self, no non-self; everywhere only grace and love.
They
have no limitations of time, none of action, no merit, no demerit,
no
happiness, no sorrow, no darkness. It is a permanent unalloyed
illumination. It is the massive Light of Consciousness. No up, no
down, no high, no low, no peak, no valley. It is a state
transcending all
speech and thought.” – Quote from a lecture by Shri Kripananda
Varrier, in Tamil.
955. S: Oh God, what an elevating experience just to hear about
it!
956. G: Now let us come down to terra firma and start winding up.
957. S: One loose end still. You have not said anything about
those
two good channels: ShraddhA and Bhakti.
958. G. Thanks for reminding me. Without these two channels of the
mind, none could hope to rise spiritually.
959. S: But all the while we have been talking only of the need to
realise the One Brahman which is omnipresent.
960. G: That is right. But how is that realisation ever to be
achieved?
961. S: Does not advaita hold the view that you need only to
remove
your ignorance in order for the Realisation to spark?
962. G: Yes, like the story of the ‘tenth man’ thought as lost,
but it is
actually yourself; for you missed to count yourself !
963. S: Is it therefore a question of sparking of the Truth from
within?
964. G: True. But that sparking needs a crystal clear mind with no
spots – and, the Grace of God!
965. S: Which means, without bhakti, we’ll never see the
end of
samsAra?
966. G: Certainly. It is by bhakti, says the Lord, you come
to know
Me as I am, what I am and Who I am.
967. S: Yes, I know how it ends: And knowing Me in real terms, you
straightaway enter into Me.
968. G:Yes. However one may contemplate into His mystery, His
greatness and true nature are known only by His Grace.
969. S: But then, there is this great debate about what is the
correct
route – Bhakti or jnAna?
970. G: That is not the great debate about. The debate is about
whether the path of jnAna admits or needs bhakti.
971. S: I don’t see the point of the debate. How can a divine goal
admit of a path which denies faith in that divinity?
972. G: You have understood rightly. Nor can faith in that
divinity
deny a path that seeks a knowledge of the goal.
973. S: In other words, whether it is the Bhakti path or
the jnAna
path, both needs the other.
974. G: The debate arises because Shankara has said many times:
Moksha is only by Realisation of the Ultimate.
975. S: Shankara himself was a great devotee, with temple worship,
stotras and all!
976. G: Great advaita preceptors like Madhusudana Saraswati and
Appayya Dikshidar have also been ardent devotees.
977. S: There is not a single propagator of advaita who is not
also a
strong devotee of God.
978. G: So let us wind up now with a famous shAnti-mantra.
“saha
nau avatu” - Let us be protected together.
979. S: This certainly is an expression of total surrender to the
Supreme.
980. G: “saha nau bhunaktu” –Let us enjoy together. What
would
you interpret this as?
981. S: I am not clear, Guruji, please help me!
982. G: Well, remember the last shloka of the 11th chapter
of the
Gita?
983. S: The Lord says there: Be engaged in works for Me, Have Me
as your refuge and so on; then you shall reach Me.
984. G: Why not say the rest : “mad-bhaktas-sanga-varjitaH;
nirvairas-sarva-bhUteshhu ...”
985. S: Be My devotee; Be clear of all attachments; Have no hate
of
any being.
986. G: I reminded you of this shloka because this one shloka
is the
summum bonum of all spiritual teaching.
987. S: And therefore of the entire Gita. Right?
988. G: Yes. There are five advices here. Each is a major teaching
of
the Gita. And they exhaust the Gita.
989. S: I understand four of them. But how does the “No hate”
advice get classified as a major teaching of the Gita?
990. G: Because total absence of hate can come only by an
equanimous view of things.
991. S: And is that the brahma-bhAva of the Gita?
992. G: Yes, of course.
993. S: Why did you bring this up when we were on the
“sahanAvavatu” shAnti mantra?
994. G: Good question. There are five sentences in that
shAntimantra also. And there is a beautiful
correspondence!
995. S: Let me see. “sa ha nAvavatu”: This talks of
protection and so
corresponds to “Have Me as refuge” in the shloka.
996. G: “sa ha nau bhunaktu” talks of enjoyment. Enjoyment
is only
in the Worship of the Lord. So ...
997. S: It corresponds to “Be My devotee” in the shloka of
the Gita.
998. G: Now let us come to “saha vIryaM karavAvahai”.
999. S: Let us share our power together, Let us work together.
1000. G: This is Working one’s svadharma without any
self-interest.
1001. S: So it corresponds to “Be engaged in Works for Me” of the
shloka.
1002. G: “tejasvina-avadhItamastu”. This is about
education. Let our
experience be bright.
1003. S: This must correspond to the Yoga-sAdhanA part of
the
shloka, namely “Be clear of all attachments”.
1004. G: You said it right. Unless we do our works in a detached
fashion productivity would not be optimal.
1005. S: Finally “mA vidvishAvahai” : Let us not hate.
1006. G: Clearly this corresponds to “Have no hate of any being”
of
the shloka.
1007. S: Wonderful, Guruji, My PraNAms. Om
Shri Gurubhyo
namaH.
1008. Guru and Shishhya (together): Om
shAntiH sHAntiH shAntiH.
Om Tat Sat
(Continued...)
(My
humble salutatio Sri Sankaraacharya , Sreeman Brahmasri V Krishnamurthy ji and Advaita Vedanta dot org for the collection)
