A step by step first exposure to advaita Through a dialogue of 1008 entries-1

A step by step first exposure to advaita

Through a dialogue of 1008 entries

Important note: The following rambling conversation has been composed as

an attempt to bring to the lay reader some truths of advaita, without

venturing into long passages. So a conscious effort has been made to reduce

each bit of the conversation to a single line on the web(with just eight

exceptions). It has turned out to be a no-holds-barred dialogue, long and

continuous. In the modern days of desire to learn ‘without tears’, this

perhaps would carry a message to those of us who, inspite of their

intelligence in everything pertaining to the world, think of themselves as

dummies in advaita. Incidentally I imposed on myself another restriction,

namely I will not exceed 1008 entries in this conversation. And thus it has

been a useful ‘nidhidhyAsana’ (Contemplation on what I have learnt)

exercise for me. And one may notice, the whole treatment goes in slow

motion, step by step. Concepts are brought in, one step at a time. I think this

is good for a purposeful nidhidhyAsanA, especially for a beginner on the

spiritual path. I apologise for not breaking it into smaller sections or

chapters, because the continuous flow of thoughts would not admit breaks.

My PraNAms to all the Great Gurus of the world and the Guru of Gurus,

Shri dakshhiNAmUrti.

A step by step first exposure to advaita

Through a dialogue of 1008 entries

1. Shishhya: Om namo gurubhyaH (Prostrations to The Guru)

2. Guru : JnAna-vairAgya-siddhir-astu (May you achieve Wisdom and

Dispassion)

3. S: I wish the painfulness in the world were unreal.

4. G: What makes you wish so?

5. S: Because I feel the pain.

6. G: Who is this that feels the pain?

7. S: I, myself.

8. G: Did you say ‘yourself’ or ‘your self’?

9. S: What is the difference?

10.G: There is a lot of difference. But please answer my question.

11.S: I don’t see any difference.

12.G: That is the problem; in fact it is a disease called ‘samsAra’.

13.S: I don’t see it as a disease, but I see you are hinting at something.

Can you explain?

14.G: Your self is different from yourself.

15.S: I see you are referring to that something called my self, which is

not myself ?

16.G: You may better call it your Self, with a capital ‘S’.

17.S: Where is it? I have not seen it or felt it.

18.G: You have never seen it because it is you yourself.

19.S: Just now you said there is a difference between myself and my Self.

20.G: But you said you don’t see any difference.

21.S: So what is right? You are confusing me.

22.G: Good, that is where you have to start. State your confusion clearly.

23.S: What is the difference between myself and my Self?

24.G: One is perishable, the other is not.

25.S: I see. Yes, myself is perishable. But I am not clear why my Self is

not perishable.

26.G: You are jumping the line.You have not yet accepted there is a Self

other than yourself.

27.S: I thought you said that my Self is myself.

28.G: It depends on what you mean by the words ‘myself’ and ‘my

Self’.

29.S: Are you not playing with words?

30.G: No. ‘yourself’ is what you ordinarily think you are. ‘your Self’ is

what you are.

31.S: Then what I am is my Self. Is that right?

32.G: Yes, that is the final teaching of the Upanishads. Better to call it

‘The Self’.

33.S: What difference does it make to my daily life?

34.G: It makes this difference; if you don’t absorb this teaching, you are

bound to suffer.

35.S: Are you referring to ‘me’ or , ‘my Self’ – which you are calling

‘The Self’.

36.G: The Self will never suffer; it is you who will suffer.

37.S: I am still not clear why you are making this distinction between

‘me’ and ‘my Self’.

38.G: When I talk to you as ‘you’ I am only talking to you as a body,

with mind & intellect.

39.S: And in the other case?

40.G: I am referring to the Self or the Atman that is permanently within

you – not the body, mind or intellect.

41.S: Is it then the Atman that is leaving the body at death?

42.G: Atman does not leave anything or come to anything.

43.S: Then what is it that leaves the body?

44.G: It is the manifestation of the Atman in the body, that leaves the

body.

45.S: Where is this Atman manifested in my body?

46.G: It is not a physical entity that can be assigned a location in the

body.

47.S: Then is it in my mind, brain or my intellect?

48.G: In one sense it is in none of these; in another sense it is

everywhere.

49.S: How can that be?

50.G: Because without the Atman, neither the mind nor the intellect has

any locus standi.

51.S: Why did you now leave out the body and the brain?

52.G:The mind and the intellect are more subtle than the visibly

perishing body and brain.

53.S: Even those subtle things (mind and intellect) – can’t they subsist

without the Atman?

54.G: No. Without the presence of the Self or Atman, nothing in this

world can subsist.

55.S: If nothing can subsist without the Atman, we must be able to feel

Atman everywhere.

56.G: That is the point of the teaching. See Atman everywhere.

57.S: How do I see it? Nobody seems to be seeing it?

58.G: This is where the subject of Vedanta comes in.

59.S: So is it the contention of Vedanta that Atman is everywhere?

60.G: It is not just a contention. It is the Truth, the Reality.

61.S: How can it be proved to be the Truth?

62.G: What kind of proof are you looking for?

63.S: Of course, a rational, scientific proof.

64.G: But rationality and science are only products of the mind.

65.S: What is wrong with it?

66.G: Nothing is wrong; but the Truth of the Self is beyond the mind.

67.S: On what authority are you saying this?

68.G: On the authority of the Vedas and Upanishads.

69.S: OK. Let the Truth be beyond the mind; how then do we ever know

the Truth of the Self?

70.G: By experiencing it.

71.S: What kind of experience? By the mind? You already said the body

is perishable.

72.G: Mind also is perishable, though it takes a longer time. But the

perishable mind serves as a useful tool.

73.S: Tool for what? To know the truth of the Self?

74.G: Yes. The perishable mind has to be used to seek the Imperishable

Self.

75.S. There seems to be a logical fallacy here – Perishable thing seeking

the Imperishable!

76.G. ‘Seems to be’ – that is right; the logical fallacy vanishes when you

go deeper.

77.S: I don’t understand.

78.G: The Perishable perishes in the Imperishable.

79.S: Looks like a conundrum.

80.G: Yes, scriptural statements will look like conundrums. We have to

meditate on them.

81.S: I have heard this word ‘meditation’ all the time. Is this what

meditation is all about?

82.G: In one sense, yes. But let us take up the subject of meditation at a

later stage.

83.S: Then please explain to me how ‘The Perishable perishes in the

Imperishable’.

84.G: Like salt in water.

85.S: Then there would be no more salt. So does the Perishable vanish?

Does only the Imperishable remain?

86.G: You got the point. The mind seeking to know the Truth, effaces

itself, and ..

87.S: Becomes the Truth!

88.G: I like students who can comprehend so quickly!

89.S: But the whole thing looks like a made-up mathematical puzzle.

90.G: Puzzle certainly it is. It is the Grand puzzle of Life.

91.S: But I don’t see where all this leads to, in real life.

92.G: Say ‘in the reality of life’.

93.S: In the reality of life, I see pain and suffering all around.

94.G: Also some happiness.

95.S: Yes, happiness also; but happiness is so few and far between that it

never surfaces.

96.G: Let us analyse this little happiness before we go to the ‘suffering’

part.

97.S: I am happy whenever I get what I wanted.

98.G: Were you happy when you wanted it?

99.S: Not fully. But I was excited at the thought of my pursuing what I

wanted.

100. G: Were you happy before you started wanting it?

101. S: I don’t understand the question; I think the question does not

arise.

102. G: Yes, you are right. Happiness was not in question then .

103. S: ‘Then’ means?

104. G: Before you started wanting it, you were not unhappy,

because there was no want.

105. S: I think you are trying to trip me by quibbling.

106. G: No, I am saying, the moment you wanted something,

happiness receded from you.

107. S: But you are putting words in my mouth.

108. G: What words?

109. S: You are making me accept that I was happy before I started

wanting something.

110. G: Certainly. Is there any doubt on that?

111. S: But I had other wants.

112. G: Let us go to the situation when you had your first want.

113. S: There is no such situation.

114. G: But you said you were happy sometimes.

115. S: Yes, life is a mixture of happiness and unhappiness.

116. G: Analyse how you were happy when you were happy.

117. S: I did not allow my ‘want’ thoughts to disturb me when I was

happy.

118. G: You were happy, and the fact of not ‘wanting’ anything,

continued your happiness.

119. S: Well, I think that may be the right way to put it.

120. G: Thus you started from the position of happiness, and a ripple

of a ‘want’ disturbed it.

121. S: What are you leading me to?

122. G: It is ‘want’ that disturbs the happiness which is with you.

123. S: So if I am to continue to be happy, I should not ‘want’

anything. Is that what you are driving at?

124. G: You are right on the dot.

125. S: But it is an impossible task not to want anything.

126. G: First accept it in theory.

127. S: In other words, it is ‘want’ or ‘desire’ that makes me

unhappy.

128. G: The man who has no wants or desires is perfectly happy.

129. S: What has all this to do with Vedanta which talks about the

Self?

130. G: Everything. We have to analyse who is it that wants and

makes himself unhappy.

131. S: I guess it is myself.

132. G: I am glad you used the right word – ‘myself’.

133. S: I miss the point.

134. G: The Self has no wants and is always full of happiness or

bliss.

135. S: You are asserting it without ascribing any reason.

136. G: Because the definition of the Self according to the scriptures

implies that.

137. S: What is the definition?

138. G: The Self is Consciousness. The Self is Bliss.

139. S. This does not make any sense to me.

140. G: That is why we are going through this dialogue.

141. S: If the Self is Bliss, then I should not have any suffering.

142. G: True. You have no suffering.

143. S: Guruji, it is not enough for you to say so. I must be able to

say I have no suffering.

144. G: Who feels the suffering?

145. S: I, certainly.

146. G: Not so fast. In order to understand, let us take a simple

example of a suffering.

147. S: Alright. Suppose somebody pinches me. I feel the pinch.

Don’t I?

148. G: Wait. Somebody pinches you. Strictly speaking, it is the

body that is pinched.

149. S: But I feel it, because my mind recognises the pinching of my

body.

150. G: So it is your mind that should suffer, not you.

151. S: But my mind is mine.

152. G: That is the point. Your mind is yours, it is not you.

153. S: Are you not just hairsplitting?

154. G: No, the entire Vedanta depends on this. Your mind is not

you.

155. S: But when my mind suffers, I suffer with it.

156. G: Vedanta says: Let the mind suffer or experience. Don’t

suffer or experience with it.

157. S: It is a tall order.

158. G: Who said it is not? The tall order is to bring your happiness

back.

159. S: So Vedanta does not seem to remove my suffering; it allows

my suffering to stay.

160. G: Vedanta intends to insulate you from your suffering.

161. S: What does that mean?

162. G: That which suffers is dissociated from you, the Self.

163. S: But in that case I have to be the Self.

164. G: Exactly. “Be your Self” say the scriptures. Then there is no

suffering.

165. S: The remedy turns out to be more severe than the disease of

suffering.

166. G: All that Vedanta tells you is to change your attitude to all

experience.

167. S: When you say ‘experience’ do you mean both suffering and

happiness?

168. G: Yes, whether it is happiness or otherwise, it is your attitude

that is important.

169. S: Does it mean then, that I should simply be impervious to all

experience?

170. G: Yes, that is the Gita teaching. You are not the experiencer.

171. S: According to Vedanta, then who is the experiencer?

172. G: The experiencer is the one who has identified with his body,

mind, intellect (BMI).

173. S: Who is that one?

174. G: If there is one such.

175. S: It is not clear to me what you are saying.

176. G: If you don’t identify yourself with your BMI, you are not the

experiencer.

177. S: Who is this ‘you’ that is being talked about now?

178. G: That is a good question. We have to start afresh now.

179. S: Where do you want to start?

180. G: From the BMI. The BMI is your outer personality.

181. S: I see where you are going. The inner personality is the Self .

Right?

182. G. Yes. But the Gita says there are two such selves

(Purushhas).

183. S: What? I thought I was only one person. How can there be

two selves for me?

184. G: There is only one Self. But we make the mistake of thinking

that our BMI is the Self.

185. S: Earlier we said that the BMI is not the Self.

186. G: That is right. But almost all of us all the time make the

mistake.

187. S: Make the mistake of what?

188. G: Of thinking that our BMI is the Self.

189. S: So what?

190. G: And that mistake originates a false self for us. This false self

is the other Self.

191. S: In other words, we ourselves create a false self for each of

us.

192. G: Yes. That false self, is termed the Perishable Self.

193. S: Then the real Self is the Imperishable Self.

194. G: Thus there are two, the kshhara purushha (perishable self)

and the akshhara purushha (imperishable Self).

195. S: So the kshhara purushha is the result of identification with

BMI.

196. G: And the akshhara-purushha is the Self, that is

Consciousness, Bliss.

197. S: Now tell me who is the experiencer.

198. G: The kshhara purushha is the experiencer. Incidentally the

kshhara-purushha is also known by the term jIva.

199. S: In other words, he who has identified with BMI is the

experiencer.

200. G: Perfectly. Vedanta says: You are not the experiencer.

201. S: I see the reason now. It is because the real Self has no

identification with BMI

202. G: So You, when you are not identified with the BMI, are no

more the experiencer.

203. S: Shall we translate all this to the happiness-suffering

syndrome?

204. G: Yes. It is the identification with the BMI that brings you an

experience either way.

205. S: If there is no such identification?

206. G: There is no experience of happiness or suffering. You are

what you are.

207. S: If there is no experience of happiness, then how do you say

my Self is Bliss.

208. G: Experience is by the mind; it goes from one state to another.

209. S: In the Self there is no mind to experience. Is that the reason?

210. G:Yes. The Self is Bliss. That is what all scriptures say.

211. S: But what does it mean to say that the Self is Bliss?

212. G: Bliss is our natural state.

213. S: If I go and tell this to an ordinary man, he will not believe it.

214. G: What is the natural characteristic of water?

215. S: Coolness and liquidity.

216. G: If water is hot, you will ask why it is hot. Won’t you?

217. S: Yes, I will. But I don’t see how it is relevant now.

218. G: The very fact that the hotness of water is questioned shows

that hotness is not the natural characteristic of water.

219. S: In fact the hotness disappears after a little time. To get the

heat back one has to apply external force.

220. G: When a fish is taken out of water it struggles to go back to

its natural state of a watery atmosphere.

221. S: All this means that the unnatural state raises questions and

implies struggle.

222. G: Good analysis. When you are unhappy every one asks why

you are unhappy.

223. S: But when I am happy nobody asks me why I am happy.

224. G: That is because happiness is your natural state.

225. S: But I don’t have the experience of happiness as my natural

state.

226. G: The moment you bring in the idea of experience, you are

involving a mind.

227. S: What is wrong with bringing in the mind?

228. G: I shall take you to a situation where you are yourself nothing

but bliss.

229. S: I am looking forward to it.

230. G: Do you usually sleep well?

231. S: Oh yes, I do. I sleep like a log.

232. G: Were you happy then?

233. S: It is a blissful experience.

234. G: But to register the experience, mind should be there. Was

your mind active when you were sleeping?

235. S: Certainly not, unless I was dreaming.

236. G: Were you dreaming?

237. S: We were talking of the situation when I was sleeping like a

log.

238. G: Good. So then how do you know you were happy then?

239. S: Well, it is only a memory after the event.

240. G: In order that it may be a memory, it has to be an experience

by the mind, to be recalled after the event has passed.

241. S: What are you driving at? I am confused. The mind was not

active then.

242. G: That inactive mind, brings back a memory of happiness,

when it wakes up.

243. S: That is the riddle.

244. G: Scriptures say: The jIva which was one with the BMI, now

goes back to the Self, during the sleep of the BMI.

245. S: But the Self is Bliss.

246. G: So the jIva is one with that reservoir of bliss, during the

sleep of the BMI.

247. S: Interesting!

248. G: When the BMI wakes up, the jIva resumes its usual mistake

of identification with BMI.

249. S: It sounds like a thriller now!

250. G: And the mind, with which the jIva is one now, borrows that

taste of bliss with which the jIva was in contact.

251. S: You mean now the mind talks of happiness as if it were its

own experience!

252. G: Wonderful. Shall we resume now the topic of the BMI and

the Atman, the Self?

253. S: Is there a connection between them?

254. G: No. The Atman is unattached and unconnected to anything.

It is alone.

255. S: Then why do we have to talk about it, when we are on the

topic of BMI?

256. G: Because it is the Atman which gives life to BMI.

257. S: In what sense? In the sense that the Atman is life?

258. G: Let us not use the word ‘life’ in this context.It has already

too many connotations.

259. S: Then what does the Atman do to the BMI?

260. G: It gives sentience.

261. S: What! Consciousness?

262. G: Yes, the mind will not be conscious but for the Atman.

263. S: What about the body?

264. G: A mysterious knotting of the BMI and the Atman takes place

at the birth of the body.

265. S: Why do you call it mysterious?

266. G: Because even Vedanta says it cannot explain it.

267. S: But do they know why it takes place?

268. G: The why, probably. But the why and how of this knotting

are both difficult questions to answer.

269. S: But this knotting is a fact?

270. G: For if not, we would have an impossible situation – of an

inert BMI with a sentience borrowed from nowhere.

271. S. Does not sentience mean consciousness ?

272. G. In a sense, yes.

273. S: What is the Atman conscious of?

274. G. That the Atman is conscious of something is a wrong

statement in advaita.

275. S: Why so?

276. G. Atman is Consciousness. There is no second object for it to

be conscious of.

277. S. First my question is: What is Consciousness without the

concept of ‘being conscious of’?

278. G. Let me try an analogy. Have you seen light, without any

object that is lighted?

279. S. Do you mean light per se, without any object that is lighted?

280. G. Exactly. Whenever you say there is light, you mean only that

objects are lighted.

281. S: But light produces a visual sensation alright.

282. G: Our problem here is whether objects have to be there or not

for the presence of light.

283. S. Coming to think of it, yes, you are right. Light is independent

of the lighted objects.

284. G: So do you accept that there can be light without any lighted

objects?

285. S. Yes, if it is just a question of existence of light.

286. G. So also Consciousness exists without the necessity of objects

to be conscious of.

287. S. Guruji, You have really given me a profound truth.

288. G. And Consciousness, say the upanishads, is Atman!

289. S: Earlier we concluded that Atman, the Self is Bliss.

290. G: Thus it is both: Consciousness and Bliss.

291. S: You also said there is no second object in the context of

Atman. What is the idea?

292. G. Yes. Atman is one and one only, without any second. This is

a statement from the Upanishads.

293. S: Does ‘one’ mean, it cannot have parts?

294. G: Right. Also, ‘Without any second’ means there is no object

other than Atman.

295. S: What does ‘one only’ mean?

296. G: It means there is no second Atman.

297. S. What about the Atman in you and the other Atmans in the

other bodies?

298. G: Your problem is because you are considering Atman as a

finite package sitting in the body.

299. S. No. I understand Atman is pervading the entire body. But

there may be other Atmans also.

300. G. Here is where you have to go back to the declaration:

Consciousness is Atman.

301. S: Why can’t there be two Consciousness entities?

302. G: Consciousness has no boundaries of space or time.

303. S: So the Consciousness within me and the Consciousness

within you are the same?

304. G: That is the point. Let the mind in me and the mind in you

be not confused. It may lead to absurd conclusions.

305. S. Does it mean then that theAtman in all bodies is the same?

306. G: In all animate bodies, yes.

307. S: What about the inanimate? What about the universe of

matter?

308. G: They are all Atman.

309. S: What! Is matter also Consciousness? That cannot be.

310. G: You are able to see, now, that advaita is not just a dinner

conversation matter!

311. S. In fact earlier you said BMI is not Atman and now you are

saying all matter is Atman.

312. G. Very smart. Now I have to extend your horizon of

knowledge before I answer this.

313. S: I thought we are coming to the end of the discussion.

314. G: We are just beginning. Let us look at the universe around us.

315. S: I see a vast expanse of space and multifarious objects in it.

316. G: How long do they last?

317. S: Well, some of them last my lifetime; but some of them, like

the stars, last for ever.

318. G: Don’t say ‘for ever’. You know even stars have a lifetime.

319. S. But the universe lasts.

320. G. Here we have to go back to our scriptures. It is said the

universe itself has a lifetime.

321. S: What if?

322. G: So nothing lasts for ever. Everything passes away.

323. S: I am prepared to accept it as an innocuous truth.

324. G: It is not innocuous if you think further about it.

325. S: Please guide me which way to think.

326. G: The universe not only passes away but in the course of its

life, it keeps on changing.

327. S: Of course, everything is undergoing a change.

328. G: What is change?

329. S: Change is something that occurs when one state of existence

transforms into another.

330. G. How do you become aware of it?

331. S: I become aware of it by measuring it against the backdrop of

a constant state.

332. G: Wonderful. That constant state – does it ever change?

333. S: Well, everything changes – in the context of eternal time.

334. G. So let us understand it correctly. There must be something

that is constant always.

335. S: I do not understand the ‘always’.

336. G: Behind all sorts of all changes, there must be something that

is constant, that is invariant.

337. S: What is that invariant constant?

338. G: That must be something that is independent of time and

space.

339. S: Maybe, you are right. For otherwise, it will also change.

340. G: Good. We postulate therefore a basic entity that exists all the

time and everywhere.

341. S: It is only a postulate.

342. G: No. The Vedas and Upanishads cry from the housetops that

it is the Truth.

343. S: Either way it does not matter to me.

344. G: My dear, you cannot slight the Vedas like that.

345. S: Pardon me, Guruji. Then let us come back to that postulated

basic entity.

346. G: Shall we give a name to that entity, for purposes of

communication?

347. S: I have no objection.

348. G: Let us call it ‘It’ or ‘That’.

349. S: May I submit that you may think of a more descriptive

name?

350. G: The Upanishads speak of it as ‘It’ and ‘That’. But they also

call it ‘Brahman’.

351. S: Well, this is better!

352. G: What have you postulated about this Brahman?

353. S: That It never changes and It is everywhere and all the time.

354. G: One thing more.

355. S: Something more to be postulated?

356. G: No. From your own postulate it will follow.

357. S: What is it?

358. G. That It is infinite.

359. S: What happens if it is not so?

360. G: The postulated changeless character will not hold good.

361. S: Can you explain?

362. G: If It is finite, then addition of something from outside It

will change the original ‘It’.

363. S: So Brahman is infinite. O.K.

364. G: It is also the all-pervading Consciousness.

365. S: How come?

366. G: We have still to see quite a lot of that basic entity,

‘Brahman’.

367. S: You have still to tell me about the meaning of Brahman.

368. G: I shall tell you what it stands for and you will get the

meaning yourself.

369. S: By our own postulation it is the basic entity that exists

always and everywhere.

370. G: It stands for the One Reality that pervades everything,

animate or inanimate.

371. S: I would like an analogy for this pervasiveness.

372. G: Like gold in a golden ring.

373. S: Because of this pervasiveness, shall we say it is the Cause of

all that exists?

374. G. Not only that. It is itself Causeless, nameless and formless.

375. S: Why nameless? We have already named it Brahman.

376. G. We only followed the Upanishads. Any other name would

have suited it also.

377. S: But it exists. Everything that exists has to have a name and a

form.

378. G: Everything that exists belongs to the category of pictures

painted on a screen; while, ...

379. S: I see, Brahman belongs to the category of the screen.

380. G: So Brahman is like the ocean and everything else is a wave

on the ocean.

381. S: But the ocean itself has a base, the surface of the earth.

382. G: That is why, analogies have to be used carefully. No analogy

should be extended unwisely.

383. S: So is the ocean-wave analogy as also the screen-picture

analogy only to tell me what supports what?

384. G: Yes. Brahman is the substraturm which never changes while

everything else changes.

385. S: Like the movie screen which is the base for all the drama

enacted on it.

386. G: That is a beautiful example. Hold on to it. We shall use it

later.

387. S: Can we give a better analogy?

388. G: Brahman is beyond all analogies. It cannot even be

imagined.

389. S: Is it because there is nothing else other than Brahman?

390. G: It is because it is beyond space.

391. S: I get the idea, but still I would appreciate an explanation.

392. G: Imagine space without earth, without water, without fire and

without air. Can you?

393. S: Certainly, I can.

394. G: Now can you imagine something outside of space?

395. S: That is pretty difficult.

396. G: That is what I meant. Earth to water, to fire, to air, to space

is a passage from the grossest to the subtlest.

397. S: The negation of each grosser entity is possible within the

framework of the more subtle one.

398. G: Certainly. But once we reach AkAsha, space, the negation of

that cannot be done by the finite mind.

399. S: And AkAsha is to be merged in something more subtle, that

is, Brahman?

400. G: The Vedas only declare the existence of this entity and call it

‘sat’, that is, Existence!

401. S: Shall we therefore say that Brahman is the commonality of

everything there is?

402. G: Now go back to the Atman, the Consciousness in all that is

animate.

403. S: I see where you are leading me. You are going to connect

this Atman with that Brahman?

404. G: You have just missed the mark. Not just ‘connect’; I am

going to say They are the same.

405. S: What! Atman and Brahman are the same?

406. G: Exactly. This is the fundamental conclusion of the

Upanishads.

407. S: It is too much!

408. G: What is your reservation?

409. S: Atman is our inner essence. Brahman is what is everywhere.

How can they be the same?

410. G: What is everywhere can be in your core also!

411. S: That doesn’t seem to be enough logic for me.

412. G: That is why our elders resort to the authority of the

Upanishads for this.

413. S: But the concept of Brahman is then again unclear.

414. G: Well, you cannot hope to understand Brahman purely by

your intellect.

415. S: How else do I understand it?

416. G. Brahman is not an object of knowledge.

417. S: Then what is it?

418. G: It is itself pure knowledge.

419. S: You are only playing with words.

420. G: No. Brahman cannot be known in the usual way by which

everything else is known.

421. S: Even by observation and experiment?

422. G: Because, Brahman is beyond cause and effect, substance and

attribute.

423. S: Is it then just a void?

424. G: Not at all, because it is a bundle of consciousness.

425. S: Then how are we supposed to become familiar with it?

426. G: Why familiarity? You are It.

427. S: You mean I am Brahman?

428. G: Of course. But you have to qualify that ‘I’.

429. S: In what way?

430. G: The ‘I’ has been covered and camouflaged by so many other

things.

431. S: Earlier you said there are two selves, namely the outer (BMI)

and the Inner.

432. G: The Inner Self is the Atman. It witnesses all your actions but

is never involved in any of them.

433. S: Is that the one which is the same as Brahman?

434. G: Yes. We shall discuss that point later in more detail.

435. S: Now that you have mentioned ‘actions’, I have several

questions.

436. G: You may ask them. But remember to include your thoughts

in the category of ‘actions’.

437. S: How can actions and thoughts belong to the same category?

438. G: Because thoughts are also actions -- actions of the mind.

439. S: Who is responsible for my thoughts and actions – most of

which I would like to disown?

440. G: You can never disown any of your thoughts or actions. You

have to be responsible for them.

441. S: In what way?

442. G: Thoughts and actions leave their vAsanAs in your mind.

443. S: What are vAsanAs?

444. G: VAsanAs are imprints of earlier tastes and tendencies. They

form the cause of future birth.

445. S: And the state of no future birth is supposed to be moksha!

446. G: Moksha, release from births, cannot be attained until

vAsanAs are exhausted.

447. S: How do I exhaust all my vAsanAs?

448. G: It is a good question. But let us do some organization of our

discussion.

449. S: I am ready.

450. G: As you exhaust earlier vAsanAs you also acquire newer

vAsanAs.

451. S: That is unavoidable.

452. G: But there is a strategy to avoid this acquisition.

453. S: I thought Vedanta is far from being a game of strategies!

454. G: But Lord Krishna is a strategist. He tells you how to avoid

future vAsanAs sticking to you.

455. S: You mean in His Gita?

456. G: Yes. He says: Do your actions with detachment.

457. S: I have heard this word very often in religious expositions.

Please tell me about it, Guruji.

458. G: The word ‘non – attachment’ is more expressive. Let us use

it.

459. S: Does non-attachment mean that we should not be attached to

anything?

460. G: It is the attitude of non-attachment that is recommended.

461. S: But if I am not attached to my work, how do I do it

efficiently?

462. G: Actually only then you can do it efficiently.

463. S: It is perplexing. How can that be?

464. G: Because attachment will cloud the issues, as it did for

Arjuna on the battlefield.

465. S: But how does Vedanta resonate with this idea of nonattachment?

466. G: It is Vedanta that gives the right rationale for nonattachment.

467. S: Shall I try to reason it out?

468. G: Go ahead, that is what I like.

469. S: Vedanta says that there are two selves in me: the perishable

BMI and the imperishable Atman.

470. G: You have begun well.

471. S: The Atman is changeless, so does not do any action.

472. G: All action is done by the BMI.

473. S: But it is the Self that motivates the action.

474. G: No, the Self does not motivate the action. In the presence of

the Self action takes place.

475. S: So who is responsible for the action: the Self or BMI?

476. G: BMI cannot act; it is inert.

477. S: Then it is the Self that is responsible.

478. G: That is where you miss a subtle point. There are two selves.

479. S: A self which identifies with BMI and a self which does not.

480. G: You be the Self which does not so identify.

481. S: But then who acts?

482. G: Action happens in the presence of You, namely the Self

which does not identify with BMI.

483. S: But then I will become responsible.

484. G: No, You are only a witness, a silent non-participating, nonattached

witness!

485. S: You mean: Let my mind think, Let my hand act ... Still

should I remain just a witness?

486. G: Yes. That is the meaning of your identifying with the Inner

Self.

487. S: This is walking on razor’s edge!

488. G: That is why a Krishna had to explain that strategy!

489. S: Looks like we are cheating ourselves!

490. G: There is no cheating here. In the presence of the Inner Self,

because of that presence, action takes place.

491. S: In any case the doer is I myself, right?

492. G: No. You are not the doer. Your attitude is ‘na ahaM kartA’.

“I am not the doer”.

493. S: But with this posture, I can go and kill somebody and say “I

have not killed”!

494. G: First of all it is not a posture. But tell me, why would you

kill somebody?

495. S: Because I need to kill. I want to.

496. G: What is the need?

497. S: Oh, it could be several things. Revenge, maybe.

498. G: That is it. By bringing things like revenge, jealousy, etc. you

have brought in attachment.

499. S: Attachment to what?

500. G: Attachment to the result of your action.

501. S: What is wrong with it?

502. G: Then you are not in identity with the Inner Self. The Inner

Self is indifferent to all results; and it has no attachments.

503. S: But suppose I need to kill because it is my duty, like that of

a soldier on the front.

504. G: Are you doubly sure that you are only doing your duty and

you have no hate of the object of your hurt?

Om Tat Sat

                                                        

(Continued...) 

(My humble salutations Sreeman Brahmasri  V Krishnamurthy ji  and  Advaita Vedanta dot org  for the collection)